Analytics, AI, and Music with Analytics Wizard Josh Silverbauer

No hacks invited to the party. No hacks invited to the show. We've got a good thing going. No hacks invited today.

[00:00:18] Sani: Welcome to no hacks show, a weekly podcast in which smart people talk to you about better online experiences today. We're diving into a world where analytics meets creativity, a place where numbers and music harmonized to bring out the best in both worlds. And my guest on that journey is none other than Mr.

Analytics wizard, the analytical Josh Silverbauer joining me from the future. Welcome to the podcast, Josh. Great to have you on

[00:00:42] Josh: I am super excited to be here.

[00:00:44] Sani: me too. Me too. Just. A chance to talk to you about all the creative stuff you do in the sphere of analytics and well, everything else. Super pumped for that. So before we start talking about analytics, you know that there's a question that I ask everyone. You responded on my LinkedIn post. You need to hire an animal for a web analytics role because there's no more humans.

Who's your pick and why?

[00:01:05] Josh: Oh, I'm gonna go with the one that I put on the post, which is a platypus. Um, because sometimes Ugly wins. And you never know. You never know if Ugly's gonna win that day. So, I'm gonna go with the platypus and I'm gonna bet on the Ugly.

[00:01:20] Sani: I love that. Absolutely. Also a platypus is like a, like a company company's landing page or homepage where everybody gets to put something there and the pieces don't really fit, but that's how you please every single department. It's, it's a perfect hire.

[00:01:36] Josh: And you're trying to go with the bills, right? The bills. Alright, so.

[00:01:40] Sani: Yes,

[00:01:41] Josh: bill. Big bills.

[00:01:42] Sani: So how did you get into web analytics in the first place? When did that happen? Why did that happen?

[00:01:48] Josh: So, my entire life has been a struggle between my left and right brain. Um, most of the times my right brain has won. Um, and so like before, uh, you know, I grew up, I loved puzzles. I loved math, but I also really loved music. And I loved, you know, creativity. Um, and after, like when I went to school, I went for, Basically creativity.

I went for audio engineering, um, and came out of a degree with audio engineering, played in a rock and roll band for six years after college, doing odd jobs like Elvis impersonations. Literally, I did that for a job, um, and other weird stuff. Uh, but then, like, you know, I met my now wife and the story goes is, you know, she said, Why don't you try something else other than what you're doing right now?

So I said, yeah, I should probably do something with my life So I went to relearn the stuff that I learned in college Which was you know audio engineering and I went and I joined an Apple and Adobe training center As a marketing intern, I had to use their Salesforce. Their Salesforce was terrible. And so I started to fix their Salesforce and realized that I kind of liked software, you know, engineering in a way, uh, you know, kind of figuring out how to make CRMs better.

And I started with CRM, um, and, you know, but I quickly got into the Google suite there. They had a gap in their marketing as well. And so I learned AdWords. I taught myself that. Um, and then I learned Google Analytics as a support system to AdWords, and then I fell in love with Google Analytics, Google Tag Manager.

And then I just started, you know, leaning into Tag Manager more and more, and Analytics more and more, because it really stroked the puzzle in my brain, right? And I loved that side of things, and it was really, truly a puzzle again. Um, and, you know, I just started growing and growing and growing, and I kind of gave up the right side of my brain for a while.

And then this past couple years, I really fused the two and that's what's made kind of me the most happy right now. So

[00:03:55] Sani: That's awesome for you. And no one did it better. No one, no one combined analytics and music web analytics to be specific and music better than you did. I don't know if many people try to, but no one did it better.

[00:04:07] Josh: Let him try let him

[00:04:09] Sani: Let them try. Exactly. So, uh, currently you are a web analytics. Consultant, wizard, whatever you want to call it at from the future agency.

And, you know, I did a lot of web analytics in the past and when GA4 happened, this is kind of when I started doing other things and I said, look, I'm getting off on this stop. You're not going to continue with me. I'm not, I'm not interested in GA4. I should be, I should learn more about it, of course. But what's the status of web analytics in 2024?

Hmm.

[00:04:42] Josh: I think there's a lot of uncertainty, confusion, you know, like for better or for worse, like Universal Analytics was just a very accessible platform for a lot of people, right? It really made people incredibly passionate about, I can learn analytics, whether they really truly understood it or not. It gave them a really simple interface.

That was complicated, complicated enough that there was a big range. But with GA4, you really need to have a specialist who is able to one, you know, be almost like a full time job around GA4 and that isolated a lot of people who were in marketing, who feel kind of. You know, like one angry one, you know, not passionate what, you know, another just really, um, in fear of like where they're going to get their data.

So there's, you know, and then there's other platforms that are popping up, but the, you know, Google is so big with. You know, uh, search and and everything that they feel they need G. A. Four still right? And so there's just this really, uh, you know, discomfort around web analytics, and we're going to see that grow as.

You know, third party cookies are deprecated from Chrome and different, you know, AI becomes more of a, uh, a source of getting information. There's just going to be this general, uh, kind of bubbling dis ease with, with, you know, where things are going. So, that's where it is right now.

[00:06:15] Sani: when you said universal analytics, you said for better or worse, it was a popular product. What's for worst part of that statement.

[00:06:22] Josh: Well, I think, you know, um, you know, I went being kind of, you know, in this space for 10 years, the famous line that I would always hear is I know enough to be dangerous, right? That's what everybody would say, right? I know enough to be dangerous. And they didn't really know. Enough, and they did know enough to be dangerous because, you know, ultimately they, you know, people thought that they could really power use a system without having kind of a real, you know, true basis in understanding analytics, et cetera.

Right. And, you know, that You know, I, I, I even I would always lean on make things accessible regardless, right? Like, just give people tools to use technology and let them learn and see who fits with it. Right? And so even though, you know, people didn't have a strong background in data science and data analytics, right?

Being able to use a platform, you know, to help them. Is better than not being able to use any platform to help them. Right. So I think that, you know, in my personal opinion, you know, even just, just having a system that is accessible is better than, than not, and GA4 is so not accessible that, you know, it puts a lot of people out.

Yeah.

[00:07:38] Sani: a lot of people, if we're being honest, was a glorified stat counter and nothing more than that. I want to see the number of sessions. I want to see the number of users who goes to my landing page. What's the drop a bounce rate in some cases. And like, that's the end of that.

That's enough to be dangerous, right?

[00:07:54] Josh: so it's amazing how they, they just couldn't get that right. GA4, right. But you know, it's, uh, getting there, we'll

[00:08:01] Sani: It's getting there. Yep. And you still get that banner at the top in GA4 that says that your universal is not processing data, blah, blah, blah. Like it's been there for two years now, almost. It's time for that to go, if you ask me. So GA4 obviously is the, I mean, there's the brand, the Google brand behind it.

It's the big player. What are the other options for someone who just says, I don't want to deal with this. This is too complicated. I want my UA back. What are the options for that kind

[00:08:31] Josh: I mean, a very, um, like if, if people miss kind of the, the feel, um, and some of the ways that Google analytics, uh, or universal analytics kind of laid itself out, um, pay wake pro is a really good alternative for that because it's, you know, similar in terms of the way that it was, you know, kind of built and laid out.

So it's, it, it makes it feel like the way that I kind of explain it is like if universal analytics was to have a 2. 0.

[00:08:57] Sani: Mm.

[00:08:58] Josh: And it wasn't GA4, um, it would be Pillay Pro because it really, you know, they went kind of that direction and there's, you know, some really valuable stuff you can get from it. But there's other, all these other platforms that are, you know, popping up as well that serve different needs.

Like Microsoft Clarity is really taking on a lot of the visual interpretations of how, you know, people are using your website. Um, you know, they focus more on heat maps and session replay, but there's going to be more like, you know, funnels and other things that are going to be coming out soon with within, um, you know, Microsoft Clarity.

Um, there are, you know, um, uh, like other systems like, uh, Twick, um, you know, uh, there's a ton that kind of came out during this time. Um, and then there's all of the kind of like. More broader, like, um, like integrated CDP systems, like segment and stuff that if like are truly like first party data first, you know, product analysis, mixed panel product stuff, right?

So there's a lot out there right now.

[00:10:04] Sani: And it's more confusing than it was three years ago with Universal just being the default option for most. I mean, of course, if you have a brand, if you know exactly what you're looking for, it's easy to select a tool. But if you just create an e commerce website or a small website, Universal analytics was your default option for everyone.

It was a default option. Now, I don't think it exists like that, that GA4.

[00:10:27] Josh: I had a, I had a great, um, uh, analogy for this, which is the Game of Thrones. It is the Game of Thrones analogy, right? And this will be quick, but basically, you know, Universal Analytics was, uh, The Robert Baratheon, he was the king, right? And then he died and now everybody is trying to get to the throne.

And we have Geoffrey who is like the, you know, GA4 that nobody likes. And it's just like, Oh, I guess we have to accept this because he's the son. And, but everybody else is like, there's a ton of other platforms who are going to the throne and no one really knows how it's going to pan out. So we'll have to say,

[00:11:03] Sani: Who's the dragon in this analogy?

[00:11:06] Josh: uh, AI.

[00:11:08] Sani: Okay. I love

[00:11:09] Josh: what I mean?

[00:11:10] Sani: yes,

[00:11:11] Josh: It's the thing that's gonna destroy everything. We'll see.

[00:11:14] Sani: Hopefully not everything, but that's, that's a good point. So speaking of AI, uh, of course, it's a big thing in, in, in web analytics. I don't think it's as big as it's going to be in, even in six months from now, like it's going to take over completely help with analysis today.

And this is we're recording this it's April, 2024. What are the practical applications of AI in any of these Google web analytics, not

[00:11:40] Josh: yeah, web analytics. Yeah, sure. Um, so it's, it's interesting because like different platforms have different applications of, of, um, you know, AI, depending on the resources that they are, that they have. Right. And, you know, we see some of them popping up just like literally last week, another one popped up in BigQuery.

And that one is, you know, I, I categorize them into like, Five different buckets. There's like the helpers, right? And the helpers are, you know, Oh, we'll complete a task for you so that you can do this faster. Right? Um, so like the big query one that just popped up is we'll help you write sequel if you, uh, you know, in plain language, just say what you want, right?

So you don't have to write sequel, right? So there's the helpers in there, right? And they're just gonna help the product kind of get you to the product. Then there is the, you know, the explainers, the insights, right? So it's n slash summarizers, right? So it's like taking a lot of the data and summarizing, you know, what has happened.

So you don't have to, you know, stay there and, you know, kind of analyze it yourself. And you see this in something like clarity where you can, you know, basically take a heat map. Um, and say, tell me exactly what happened on this page, right? What are the, um, you know, where are people, uh, um, clicking? Where are they not clicking?

Where are they having friction? Or it can, you know, basically gather up a whole bunch of sessions and, um, say, okay, you know, uh, uh, you, you tell me what those sessions did. Um, and so I don't have to watch all of these myself. So there's summarizing.

[00:13:19] Sani: good at that?

[00:13:20] Josh: Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely the best that I've seen.

Um, when it comes to that, you know, and it, you know, there's definitely room for improvement. Um, you know, and it's AI, right? So there's always room for improvement, but it is. Like the best version of what I've seen, uh, that application do, um, and so, and then on the ga side, like, you know, it's providing insights based off of the trends, but like, I don't find those super duper valuable to me, like the summarized insights.

Um, then there's like the, Attribution side and modeling side, right, which is kind of, you know, taking all of the information and the data and allocating out, um, you know, uh, what should get credit based off of activity that it sees on the site, right? And so, you know, as opposed like the data driven essentially model, right?

So it's like. Yeah, you know, three different sessions happened and then a varying amount of activity happened. Let's allocate credit based off of, you know, automatically, uh, based off of what people did during that. So it's taking the data, understanding the data, and then making decisions based off of what should get credit based off of that data.

And then there's predictive, like the predictive analysis analytics, which is basically like taking all of that data and saying, okay, what will happen or what will potentially happen with people who are similar to, you know, based off of the previous day that we see somebody took an activity, so let's predict that they will take another activity down the road.

So, so that's another bucket. And then, uh, the final bucket, which we're not seeing, um, too much today. But we will, um, is the chat

[00:15:05] Sani: mm

[00:15:05] Josh: one, which is literally taking data that's happening and you literally have kind of an employee at your, like a, you know, to kind of say, okay, I'm on my website. What's happening?

Where are people, you know, actually falling off, right? And, like, that interaction, um, element of, like, actually chatting with your data, you can kind of get there if you, like, export your data and put it into something like, you know, uh, ChatGPT or something. But, like, you're not rea there's not a platform right now that's really good at, from my knowledge, At that chat interaction with your actual data, um, you know, that lives in a marketing analytics space.

So we'll see that.

[00:15:50] Sani: And we talked about conversational, uh, interfaces. Off the record, I'm a firm believer that this is how we will interact with machines in a few years, if not sooner, because Chad GPT is teaching us to do that. Google will start teaching the whole world to do that same thing with SGE. I think the way we interact with machines is going to change.

It's going to be more conversational and less like click, scroll, and find what you're trying to find with your eyes. We'll see about that. We'll see about it, but I think it might happen. So what is What for you would be an ideal AI tool

[00:16:26] Josh: Yeah.

[00:16:27] Sani: or AI application? Is it that chat application or something else?

[00:16:30] Josh: So that's that's definitely one of them. Um, you know, I see a future where. So much of this stuff is automated, um, from, you know, uh, an analytics and CRO and different, you know, aspects, you know, it's, it's learning about the data. It's understanding the data. It's optimizing the website. It's deciding. What changes should be made and then you're having a conversation with it.

It's essentially an employee of yours that you can go to your website. I, I, in my mind, the analytics of the future lives in an interaction on a website, right? You're on your own website. You have a chat bot essentially right there and you're saying, Tell me about the friction points. Okay, what's the data that supports that?

Right? You, you have the, um, you say, I'm on my checkout right now. You know, I'm on my checkout because you're, you know, a very smart chat bot that's smarter than me. Um, and I, I'm, I'm trying to understand what could be better here. And then it's essentially taking all of that data that it's processing and giving you suggestions.

And then it says, do you want me to make those changes? Right? And you can because it's automated and they can do it and they understand your website So well because they've learned it through all the data that it's processed

[00:17:53] Sani: That's a dream. Like that's basically, I mean, it's a nightmare for us optimizing websites, but it's also a dream for having an optimized website, because if, if a machine can understand. implement, like fix itself. That will happen eventually, of course, but it sounds very appealing. It sounds super, super interesting.

[00:18:14] Josh: It's gonna be great. We're gonna a lot of jobs are gonna change I truly feel though that smart people will figure out how to be smart and successful regardless of the change You know and until until there is no jobs left and we're working for AI, you know, that's how it

[00:18:31] Sani: Okay. It's 2024. Give me like over under if that will happen in like 2037, let's say

[00:18:39] Josh: Was that 13 years If we're working for AI, um, I would say I would play some bets that, uh, the world is going to be very, very different then. Um, I'm not, you know, I, I won't lean into any type of, uh, you know, scare, scare tactics. Yeah. I'm, I'm an, I'm an optimistic person, my friend. I, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to go dark.

[00:19:07] Sani: I know, I know, but yeah, we will work for AI, be paid by AI. Maybe, maybe that's a better way because I mean, universal basic income is like a thing that people talk about. If AI doesn't give us universal basic income, it will never happen. Like it will never, never, ever happen.

And I have a feeling that some rich people will find a way to make it not happen, but let's see about that. Okay. Enough of the scary thoughts, enough of the 2037 world going to hell, whatever. Let's talk about the creative side of analytics or creative side of office jobs. Let's call them that consultant jobs.

You mentioned that in the intro. Uh, you. You were pushed away from your creative side. Yeah. Like when, when your girlfriend told you, you need to do something other than this, basically.

[00:20:01] Josh: Yeah.

[00:20:02] Sani: And then you find, you found your way, which among other things, your YouTube channel called analytical writing music, uh, uh, all kinds of, super interesting things that I find super interesting.

So how does that help you stay motivated to do your job? That's not the creative. So there's, let's say there's creative and there's quote unquote, boring stuff about work. How does the creative doing creative things motivate you to do the boring things?

[00:20:30] Josh: Yeah, I mean, it, it, you know, I, so on the one side, I would not in my brain call analytics job boring. However, it did not feel, um, complete to me, right? I really, I felt like one side of me and I was not, there's this really, you know, powerful side of me that really wants to create and be artistic and you know constant output of Music and video and just all sorts of really fun content And I just didn't I couldn't figure out how to do that when I when I own my own agency I just really couldn't figure out how to do that and I thought I had to be super serious, don't be all business.

Right. And you know, when I left, um, I, uh, I had a, a friend of mine who's a brand consultant was like, basically, you know, I was talking to him and I was talking about kind of the struggles that I had. And he was like, who wouldn't want to work with the singing and dancing analytics guy? And I was like, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, what? Yeah, you're right. And so, you know, I really just started leaning in and, uh, it kind of happened a little bit by accident. I, you know, I put out that universal sunset song. That was the first like really. Thing that I did and it got good reception and then I was like, you know what? I want to just keep building.

I want to include the community because I really wasn't part of the community at all. I just, I didn't even know there was a community, but you know, I knew that I had learned from people and I wanted to include those people in my projects. And so I reached out to Simo Hava and said, do you want to be on this album?

And thank God he said yes. And that's just a testament to him and how amazing he is as just a mentor to the community. But he said yes. And that really gave me the confidence to start reaching out to other smart people and say, Hey, do you want to be a part of this project? And then I thrusted myself into the community and that's where I am right now.

I'm like deep in the community, which is awesome.

[00:22:42] Sani: It's a great feeling for me that, that, The thing that got me into the community was this podcast, especially, uh, because I didn't know there was a community just like you. I had no idea there were people who just wanted to hang out and not talk about work. Also, since you mentioned Simo Ahava, shout out Simo Ahava, one of the greatest people in this community.

I have an email that I sent to him, I think in 2014, when he was just getting started with his blog, the legendary Simo Ahava blog, I asked him stupid questions about Google Tag Manager. I got a response like. Very, very long and very detailed. And he didn't even need to read that, but he responded in detail and he really helped me at that point.

So there are a lot of people like that in this community, but see, Simo is definitely one of the, one of the best ones speaking of Simo and Juliana Jackson, tell me what you did for their podcast, because I love what you did for them.

[00:23:35] Josh: Um, so, you know, I reached out to, um, uh, Juliana and I said, Hey, you guys need a theme song, you know, I like what a part of my strategy with, with all of this creative stuff. Is to do, what can I give back to the community and how can, you know, these people who have given me so much, you know, you know, I can't, you know, I'm like, Seymour Hava is like 20, 20 times smarter than me.

So I can't like give him like my, you know, left side of my brain, but I can give him my right side of the brain and I can create, you know, music and I can create all this stuff that, you know, uh, that I can, you know, really lend my talents to. And I said, Hey, you guys need a theme song. Um, Um, and so, you know, me and Jason Packer, who Jason Packer wrote the book on GA4 Alternatives.

Um, I reached out to him a long time ago to get involved with the album. We became kind of a partner in, in how we're putting out this content. And so I, you know, I said, Hey, Jason, you want to work with me on like these theme songs? He said, yes, he wrote the theme to it. And then I kind of, you know, produced it and, uh, you know, we, we built this thing and then sent it out and they liked it and started building more like

[00:24:46] Sani: And what that led to, yes, is to, to creation of the mega hit. Like we had flowers in 2023, a song of the year 2024 is going to be no hacks invited to the party. I guarantee you this. I have a feeling this is going to be the song of the year because the theme song that you heard in the intro and we'll hear it, you know, I'll show this episode.

It was written by Josh and David. It's just, I mean, the way, the way it was made just blew my mind because it was, Hey, you need a theme song. Basically, that is exactly what you said about the standard deviation podcast. And I think this was, Well, not, not the first version, but it clicked immediately. Like the first version was great.

The vibe and, and a British friend told me it's only fools and horses vibe. If you haven't watched that TV show, that's exactly what it is. I loved it. It is absolutely amazing. So now you did one for the measure up podcast, if

[00:25:39] Josh: yeah, measure up podcast. Yep. And, and Jim, uh, who, you know, uh, him and Simon, uh, lead up that podcast. Um, Jim was on the album with me. Uh, so like all these people, like, you know, we're, it's kind of like scratching back type things, right? Like, you know, it's, it's really like. I'm giving, they're giving, it's all just community, we're all helping each other, we're all trying to get, you know, each other up and, and, you know, out there, so, you know, it really just feels like we're all just giving back, you know.

[00:26:15] Sani: That's very, very well said. So for the end, final question, where can people see you? Are there any conferences you'll be at? Like, where can people find you online? What's the best way to reach out to you?

[00:26:25] Josh: So, um, the, I'm going to Measure Camp, um, so I'm coming up and I'm doing a couple of, uh, presentations there, and that's, uh, April 13th. Um, I am very, very present on LinkedIn, so you can look up Josh Silverbauer or Jay Silverbauer, the slash before it. Um, I have a YouTube channel called Anna Lyrical, uh, which you can, you know, I put out some really fun music stuff there and then, um, I'll be going to the Marketing Analytics Summit and I might do a surprise there, but I can't talk about it.

[00:26:59] Sani: When is that

[00:27:00] Josh: that's in June. That's the first week of June. Yeah.

[00:27:03] Sani: That is awesome. Hey, all I can say is for the song that people will hear in about 30 seconds or one minute in the outro, the instrument instrumental version, or as I called it when it, when I talked to you, the. Cruise ship, disco banger, because that's exactly what it is without the words.

And I can only thank you. This was a great experience. I'm really, I feel lucky that I ran into you on LinkedIn and that's the power of community there because there's a lot of people who are in the same boat as you are, who want to do the same thing and just reach out, reach out, do something for others, they'll do something for you.

That, that's just how it works. And to everyone listening to this episode, I'm sure you learned about. Why. Bye bye. You should not only use J4 and what are the other options, how you can use AI in your web analytics work and why staying working creative will keep you motivated to do your job. And I thank you and I hope you can rate review and share this episode and I will talk to you next week.